Kind of surprising to see such a full-throated endorsement of cancel culture. I agree in part (I think?). This is something we’ve been saying for years: freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences. What I’d love to see now is more consequences for people (at the highest levels of power and influence and every single major news outlet) saying that ‘Israel has the right to defend itself’, which is equally as heinous and despicable in context as voicing support for ‘all forms of (Palestinian) resistance’.
Don't think this hadn't occurred to me while writing this. It's a hard circle to square. Think about how your country would react if the same thing had happened there. Would you be demanding an immediate ceasefire? Would you forego your right to defend yourself? Would that be at all reasonable? Especially if as you pointed out, freedom (of any kind) does not necessarily mean freedom from consequences.
I'm curious though - when you compare this to cancel culture, do you really believe that a group holding opinions essentially calling for the death of a race of humans is comparable to someone who insists that sex is binary; or that men shouldn't compete in women's sports; or that someone shouldn't be forced to take a vaccine they don't want? That really does seem like a bit of a stretch to me.
Do I really think a group holding opinions calling for the death of a race of humans is comparable to those things you mentioned? No. I don’t see what that has to do with this topic though. Are you talking about Nazis?
Hamas' charter literally calls for the death of all Jews. They will NEVER agree to be at peace with Israel. Ever. This has more to do with Hamas than with Israel, regardless of the history. When someone is supporting Hamas, this is what they're supporting, not Palestine. When someone is talking about Palestinian "resistance", this is what they're supporting whether they understand that or not. So in light of that, I think it's helpful to know who these people are. I don't see this as a comparable situation to "cancel culture".
“Hamas' charter literally calls for the death of all Jews”
Are you sure? I don’t think that's true. They want to destroy Israel. ‘Israel’ does not equal ‘Jews’ no matter how much the media tells us so. Being anti-Israel or pro-Palestine is not the same as being antisemitic.
I’m sure Hamas IS very antisemitic, but you’re not talking about canceling Hamas, you’re talking about canceling people who express solidarity with the Palestinian cause, so I don’t know where you got the idea that people are calling for the death of a race of humans.
You may not think that that's true, but you can spend about two minutes online if you want and you'll find out that it is. Their original charter in 1988 said exactly that. In 2017 they softened the language a bit, but the sentiment is there, as we saw on October 7th, and as we've heard when they call for a "national day of jihad" or whatever they called it.
Also, you may not think that being anti Israel is the same as being anti Jew, but I think if you ask as some Jews how they view that, you'll get a very different story.
I watched a clip of Piers Morgan the other day asking basically the same question you’re asking, and it made me wonder if I was losing my sanity. He said something like “Hamas’ horrific attack on Israel was obviously intended to provoke Israel into a swift and massive response…. so what should Israel do? What’s the appropriate response to Hamas’ attack? “ (his insinuation was Israel is acting within reason). It shocks me that someone can say this aloud, yet it’s the same thing we hear on every major news outlet.
I mean, he literally answered his own question. Raining death and destruction on the civilians of Gaza is EXACTLY what Hamas wants Israel to do!! So how about we DON’T DO THAT??!! Israel is currently conducting the biggest recruitment drive Hamas has ever seen, cementing support for Islamic terrorism as a legitimate endeavor for generations to come, not only in Gaza, but globally. I mean, you cannot say ‘terrorism is bad” while leveling entire city blocks killing thousands indiscriminately. Collective punishment is a war crime and no different from terrorism. It has nothing to do with ‘defending Israel’. Politically speaking, Hamas is the best thing that’s ever happened to Netanyahu and his obscenely corrupt administration. It’s the gift that keeps on giving. These people are on the same team.
The reasonable response would be to take this opportunity to put an end to Hamas, leveraging the international sympathy after the attacks (sympathy that is quickly eroding), find a resolution for the untenable situation in Gaza while doing the necessary police work to find those responsible and take them out with targeted raids.
International sympathy for Israel is pretty low right now, as you can see by the responses we've been discussing. I really don't think Israel feels they can wait for that to improve. The reason Hamas launches missile from residential areas is precisely so Israel will draw condemnation when they take those missiles out. The Hamas leadership doesn't even live there - they don't give a shit.
Hamas needs to be erased. The world (and Palestine) will thank Israel for that eventually, but it's not going to be pretty.
Wow. That is dark. To be clear, when you say “Hamas needs to be erased”, you mean Israel needs to do what they’re currently doing? They need to kill thousands, (yes thousands) of innocent civilians, mostly women and children?
How can you condone the IDF killings, but condemn Hamas?
We know with certainty that this will not ‘erase’ Hamas, it will do the opposite. Colonial powers like the US and Israel have tried time and again to bomb and murder populations into submission and, besides being unjust, illegal, unethical etc, it doesn’t work.
To be clear, I mean what needs to happen with Hamas, is what needed to happen with the Nazis. I realize we didn't "erase" those guys, but we attempted to and if we hadn't done that, you and I would be living in a much different world than we currently are.
I don't need to pick a side here, other than the side of humanity. As I said, Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinians. Those who say they do are the ones living in some dark fantasy world.
You say you’re “not picking a side, but the side of humanity”, but you said “The world (and Palestine) will thank Israel for that eventually, but it's not going to be pretty.” That sounds an awful lot like you’re picking the side of the IDF and Israeli government over the humans currently being slaughtered by them, and praising the most brutal atrocity we’ve seen in the 21st century so far. The vast majority of the people killed are not Hamas.
The Nazis?? The Nazis were a German nationalist movement, among other things. Even after WW2 when Germany was occupied by Soviets and allies, there was a timeline for eventually handing the land of Germany back to the German people. If we had never left and instead decided to rule Germany as a colony of the USA and Western Allies, herded the locals into walled encampments and starved them of the basic necessities and bombed them routinely, I’m sure we’d see a formidable insurgency from the Germans.
The Gaza strip for the past decade has been referred to as the world’s largest open air prison. Keep a dog in a cage and poke it with a stick, it’s not going to be a friendly dog. You cannot win a counter-insurgency war, you can only make it worse. We’ve known this since Vietnam. The more we brutalize people, the more they hate us, that’s not hard to understand.
The Israelis want what we have in Australia and Canada - a land purged of its inhabitants. The problem for them is that genocide of that kind doesn’t work in the 21st century. This obviously frustrates them and they’ll keep trying, but Hamas only grows stronger with every murdered Palestinian child.
Claiming Israel doesn't exist is different from claiming trans people don't exist? Claiming Israelis should die so palestinians can get the land they desire is different from claiming the immunocompromised and infirm should be sacrificed so a few idiots don't need to get needles they're afraid of?
The mental gymnastics you must do before writing this nonsense. Were you exposed to excessive amounts of lead as a child perhaps? Or did your parents completely fail to provide you with any moral education? Jesus would be proud, for sure.
I'm OK with the principle of self determination. The question of whether or not LGBTQ or Israel should exist is a deflection. I'm not here to tell Palestinians what to think or how to express themselves, that would be paternalistic.
You obviously haven't asked orthodox Jews about homosexuality lol.
Why did you bother bringing up Muslim beliefs about homosexuality then? Palestine isn't a free country by the way. Those people need papers to move outside of Palestinian administration... you know, similar to the imaginative persecution suffered by those who didn't want to get a vaccine. Ironic how you support Israel lol
It was called cancel culture when the leftists did it. Very virtuous of you to virtue signal about Israel. Just sucking up those MSM narratives now, aren't you! Lol
Time to deport every protestor in Canada. Free speech and political expression are suddenly very very dangerous!
I read it. You've taken up cancel culture. "Freedom of speech is not Freedom from consequences" was literally the leftist refrain during the pandemic. Congrats, you've become the thing you profess to hate!
Believe it or not, I was thinking exactly that. And I'm seriously torn between these two ideas. The difference here is that the government didn't come up with legislation to make people behave like assholes - they did that entirely on their own.
The thing is Symon, if you really believe I'm an asshole for writing what I write, that's perfectly fine. You're well within your right to think that. You even have the right to say it. But if I wasn't allowed to say what I think, you'd have no idea, just as I'd have no idea about you if I didn't let you speak.
So this is really just another win-win for free speech, isn't it?
You argument would be correct except for the fact that anyone expressing remote criticism of Israel or even tacit support is being labeled a Hamas supporter. You're even doing it yourself. Such is the power of Israeli propaganda
Kind of surprising to see such a full-throated endorsement of cancel culture. I agree in part (I think?). This is something we’ve been saying for years: freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences. What I’d love to see now is more consequences for people (at the highest levels of power and influence and every single major news outlet) saying that ‘Israel has the right to defend itself’, which is equally as heinous and despicable in context as voicing support for ‘all forms of (Palestinian) resistance’.
Don't think this hadn't occurred to me while writing this. It's a hard circle to square. Think about how your country would react if the same thing had happened there. Would you be demanding an immediate ceasefire? Would you forego your right to defend yourself? Would that be at all reasonable? Especially if as you pointed out, freedom (of any kind) does not necessarily mean freedom from consequences.
I'm curious though - when you compare this to cancel culture, do you really believe that a group holding opinions essentially calling for the death of a race of humans is comparable to someone who insists that sex is binary; or that men shouldn't compete in women's sports; or that someone shouldn't be forced to take a vaccine they don't want? That really does seem like a bit of a stretch to me.
Do I really think a group holding opinions calling for the death of a race of humans is comparable to those things you mentioned? No. I don’t see what that has to do with this topic though. Are you talking about Nazis?
Hamas' charter literally calls for the death of all Jews. They will NEVER agree to be at peace with Israel. Ever. This has more to do with Hamas than with Israel, regardless of the history. When someone is supporting Hamas, this is what they're supporting, not Palestine. When someone is talking about Palestinian "resistance", this is what they're supporting whether they understand that or not. So in light of that, I think it's helpful to know who these people are. I don't see this as a comparable situation to "cancel culture".
“Hamas' charter literally calls for the death of all Jews”
Are you sure? I don’t think that's true. They want to destroy Israel. ‘Israel’ does not equal ‘Jews’ no matter how much the media tells us so. Being anti-Israel or pro-Palestine is not the same as being antisemitic.
I’m sure Hamas IS very antisemitic, but you’re not talking about canceling Hamas, you’re talking about canceling people who express solidarity with the Palestinian cause, so I don’t know where you got the idea that people are calling for the death of a race of humans.
You may not think that that's true, but you can spend about two minutes online if you want and you'll find out that it is. Their original charter in 1988 said exactly that. In 2017 they softened the language a bit, but the sentiment is there, as we saw on October 7th, and as we've heard when they call for a "national day of jihad" or whatever they called it.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/hamas-words-and-deeds
Also, you may not think that being anti Israel is the same as being anti Jew, but I think if you ask as some Jews how they view that, you'll get a very different story.
I watched a clip of Piers Morgan the other day asking basically the same question you’re asking, and it made me wonder if I was losing my sanity. He said something like “Hamas’ horrific attack on Israel was obviously intended to provoke Israel into a swift and massive response…. so what should Israel do? What’s the appropriate response to Hamas’ attack? “ (his insinuation was Israel is acting within reason). It shocks me that someone can say this aloud, yet it’s the same thing we hear on every major news outlet.
I mean, he literally answered his own question. Raining death and destruction on the civilians of Gaza is EXACTLY what Hamas wants Israel to do!! So how about we DON’T DO THAT??!! Israel is currently conducting the biggest recruitment drive Hamas has ever seen, cementing support for Islamic terrorism as a legitimate endeavor for generations to come, not only in Gaza, but globally. I mean, you cannot say ‘terrorism is bad” while leveling entire city blocks killing thousands indiscriminately. Collective punishment is a war crime and no different from terrorism. It has nothing to do with ‘defending Israel’. Politically speaking, Hamas is the best thing that’s ever happened to Netanyahu and his obscenely corrupt administration. It’s the gift that keeps on giving. These people are on the same team.
The reasonable response would be to take this opportunity to put an end to Hamas, leveraging the international sympathy after the attacks (sympathy that is quickly eroding), find a resolution for the untenable situation in Gaza while doing the necessary police work to find those responsible and take them out with targeted raids.
https://youtu.be/4DTSzs8qQW0?si=cQBO7CfneW7lCB6L
Good video.
International sympathy for Israel is pretty low right now, as you can see by the responses we've been discussing. I really don't think Israel feels they can wait for that to improve. The reason Hamas launches missile from residential areas is precisely so Israel will draw condemnation when they take those missiles out. The Hamas leadership doesn't even live there - they don't give a shit.
Hamas needs to be erased. The world (and Palestine) will thank Israel for that eventually, but it's not going to be pretty.
Wow. That is dark. To be clear, when you say “Hamas needs to be erased”, you mean Israel needs to do what they’re currently doing? They need to kill thousands, (yes thousands) of innocent civilians, mostly women and children?
How can you condone the IDF killings, but condemn Hamas?
We know with certainty that this will not ‘erase’ Hamas, it will do the opposite. Colonial powers like the US and Israel have tried time and again to bomb and murder populations into submission and, besides being unjust, illegal, unethical etc, it doesn’t work.
To be clear, I mean what needs to happen with Hamas, is what needed to happen with the Nazis. I realize we didn't "erase" those guys, but we attempted to and if we hadn't done that, you and I would be living in a much different world than we currently are.
I don't need to pick a side here, other than the side of humanity. As I said, Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinians. Those who say they do are the ones living in some dark fantasy world.
You say you’re “not picking a side, but the side of humanity”, but you said “The world (and Palestine) will thank Israel for that eventually, but it's not going to be pretty.” That sounds an awful lot like you’re picking the side of the IDF and Israeli government over the humans currently being slaughtered by them, and praising the most brutal atrocity we’ve seen in the 21st century so far. The vast majority of the people killed are not Hamas.
The Nazis?? The Nazis were a German nationalist movement, among other things. Even after WW2 when Germany was occupied by Soviets and allies, there was a timeline for eventually handing the land of Germany back to the German people. If we had never left and instead decided to rule Germany as a colony of the USA and Western Allies, herded the locals into walled encampments and starved them of the basic necessities and bombed them routinely, I’m sure we’d see a formidable insurgency from the Germans.
The Gaza strip for the past decade has been referred to as the world’s largest open air prison. Keep a dog in a cage and poke it with a stick, it’s not going to be a friendly dog. You cannot win a counter-insurgency war, you can only make it worse. We’ve known this since Vietnam. The more we brutalize people, the more they hate us, that’s not hard to understand.
The Israelis want what we have in Australia and Canada - a land purged of its inhabitants. The problem for them is that genocide of that kind doesn’t work in the 21st century. This obviously frustrates them and they’ll keep trying, but Hamas only grows stronger with every murdered Palestinian child.
Claiming Israel doesn't exist is different from claiming trans people don't exist? Claiming Israelis should die so palestinians can get the land they desire is different from claiming the immunocompromised and infirm should be sacrificed so a few idiots don't need to get needles they're afraid of?
The mental gymnastics you must do before writing this nonsense. Were you exposed to excessive amounts of lead as a child perhaps? Or did your parents completely fail to provide you with any moral education? Jesus would be proud, for sure.
Now who's parroting the government/MSM narrative?
For the record, Hamas doesn't believe the state of Israel OR the LGBT crowd should exist. Are you okay with that?
I've never said any of those things.
I'm OK with the principle of self determination. The question of whether or not LGBTQ or Israel should exist is a deflection. I'm not here to tell Palestinians what to think or how to express themselves, that would be paternalistic.
You obviously haven't asked orthodox Jews about homosexuality lol.
What Jews and Palestinians believe is beside the point. They can believe what they want. It's a free country, right? Well here it is, anyway.
The point is not whether you or I agree with either of them. The issue is whether they should be allowed to say it or not.
Why did you bother bringing up Muslim beliefs about homosexuality then? Palestine isn't a free country by the way. Those people need papers to move outside of Palestinian administration... you know, similar to the imaginative persecution suffered by those who didn't want to get a vaccine. Ironic how you support Israel lol
It was called cancel culture when the leftists did it. Very virtuous of you to virtue signal about Israel. Just sucking up those MSM narratives now, aren't you! Lol
Time to deport every protestor in Canada. Free speech and political expression are suddenly very very dangerous!
Did you even read this article? Or are just here to call me names?
You shouldn't call these forays into creative writing "articles", that is much too generous an appraisal of your own work. You sure are a narcissist.
You sure like calling people names while adding little to the discussion. Maybe you need to look up the definition of "article".
I learned it from reading your "articles", you woke moralist
I read it. You've taken up cancel culture. "Freedom of speech is not Freedom from consequences" was literally the leftist refrain during the pandemic. Congrats, you've become the thing you profess to hate!
Believe it or not, I was thinking exactly that. And I'm seriously torn between these two ideas. The difference here is that the government didn't come up with legislation to make people behave like assholes - they did that entirely on their own.
And now you're doing it entirely on your own. Oh no wait, actually you're towing the MSM narratives on Israel and Palestine. Govern me harder daddy!
The thing is Symon, if you really believe I'm an asshole for writing what I write, that's perfectly fine. You're well within your right to think that. You even have the right to say it. But if I wasn't allowed to say what I think, you'd have no idea, just as I'd have no idea about you if I didn't let you speak.
So this is really just another win-win for free speech, isn't it?
You argument would be correct except for the fact that anyone expressing remote criticism of Israel or even tacit support is being labeled a Hamas supporter. You're even doing it yourself. Such is the power of Israeli propaganda